Hours are 9am to 5pm M - F, PST. When I went back to Quickload to adjust data to match my actual velocities I decided to adjust barrel length to see what a shorter barrel would give me. Nov 25, 2019 #1 ; Hope i can get some help with this. And that probably comes back to #1 (i.e. . Between every stage or once a day? Hes the absolute best reloader Ive ever met, and according to his data it does. when a guy is on vacation, they hire a new person, or want to cross-train), and that could affect the quality of the barrel you receive. Great article. It may be surprising to hear, but some barrel manufacturers are still using World War era equipment to produce barrels. thanks. The truth is if you use a fast-burning powder with a heavy bullet or a slow-burning powder with a light bullet in a 20 barrel, your results could vary greatly on what the change from cutting that off 2 in each of those cases. So theyd be close to the weight of the M24 and MTU contours. The one shooter on this list that was already using that contour was actually using a custom contoured barrel from Patriot Valley Arms, which was designed to heavier than the M24 contour. Thanks The barrel is almost completely cooled down by the time I use it to run the next mock stage, because there is some time in transition (writing dope, loading mags, getting bags, etc.). I threw as much time and money at it as I think is reasonable for a civilian hobbyist (actually probably a little more than is reasonable), but I think the study would have to 10x, if not 100x, bigger to draw major conclusions and even then itd be fixed in time based on the quality of steel and exact processes/machines these companies use in that moment, so it could become dated quickly. Those are literally the next two articles Ill publish. Its a much smaller December of PRS (I believe anyway), but have you ever considered doing a survey on that? At the same time, button rifled barrels have set lots of records in the Benchrest world. Retired Army Ranger Sniper, RyanCleckner, explains just as the receiver is the main part of the rifle for legal purposes, the barrel is the main part of the rifle for accuracy purposes. Cal Its very enlightening and helpful when deciding appropriate barrel length for a particular cartridge. Or at least one more updated than 2015. A Data-Driven Approach To Precision Rifles, Optics & Gear. None of them were using 308, because its not as competitive in long range shooting as these other cartridges. Also if you start with a 30 barrel and cut off 2, its be very different than cutting off 2 off a 22 barrel. Semi-Automatic Rifles . Copyright 2023 PrecisionRifleBlog.com, All Rights Reserved. They dont specify any of that on their website. Order My Barrel. What happens when you go to dial up over 100 MOA with this type of reticle. So stay tuned! I'd say over 80% of the content was ne Cal: Ha! MTU. Sometimes a longer barrel can really boost the velocity for a particular cartridge, but the same increase in length might have a negligible change in muzzle velocity for another cartridge. Then there is the brand newPROOF Competitioncontour, which was released this year. I am not a long range shooter though would were my situation different. Ted, Im not sure how many are sponsored by barrel manufacturers. I dont ever use any of those things, so its just noise to me. Cal, thanks for another objective discussion of barrels! Once again I appreciate the expense both monetarily and time away from family you invested in OUR knowledge base. The green colors represents the top shooters in the NRL, where the darkest green is the top 10, medium green is 11-25, and light green are 26th to 50th. Using Moto GP as sort of show my point, way back in the day Honda was dominate with Rossi piloting said motorcycle and ran virtually undefeated for a long time, Rossi left Honda for Yamaha, and suddenly Yamaha was the dominate brand. Benchmark built their reputation on world record-setting rimfire and centerfire barrels. REM 700 Sporter Contours. Email us anytime at >> info@benchmarkbarrels.com. But, how much does that really matter? There is an optimal barrel length for each cartridge, but that depends on all kinds of factors related to internal ballistics and how pressures build when launching the bullet. They have a smoothed out 2 transition from the shank to cylinder diameter. I do appreciate the thoughtful comments, and you sharing your ideas. Ionce visitedtheshop ofBenchrestHall of Famer Cecil TuckerandI recognized a uniqueopportunity to learn from a legend. Sporters vary greatly in weight, and we need to note that the numbers do not reference the barrel weight. THANKS CAL, YOU ROCK. 3) Id bet so, but that is probably a question for a gunsmith. I did write what I believe is the most objective comparison to the Mil vs MOA debate. So many decisions are much easier, when you can just take a look here and see whats going on in PRS world Most these guys pretty much say the same thing when I asked them for their best piece of advice. I did a really objective look into that in this article, which can help keep this stuff in perspective: How Much Does SD Matter? When most people think of PROOF Research, they probably think of their carbon fiber barrels, but PROOF also produces traditional steel barrels which is what 100% of these guys were running. One is coming up very soon. is what is better for ELR , MOA or Mills ? I hope the muzzle brake review is next. ;) Thanks, Cal Cal: Hey, Heath. We use the taperless contours on virtually all of our prototype or test barrels due to the limitless flute design potential as well as having the same barrel wall thickness from 5 to the muzzle which we believe yields higher accuracy. I do however want your opinion. My ? Even if a company doesnt have a military contract, theyre probably hoping for one so they often focus on mils. Well, you can just hold the other 6 mils using the reference points on the reticle. I need one. I appreciate you chiming in. . Now all that to say, I didnt collect that data myself but he is by far the most anal reloader Ive ever met. I appreciate you sharing your thoughts. Bartlein Barrels is a manufacturer of precision cut-rifled barrels used for hunting, precision tactical shooting, and benchrest competition. I went back and looked at all the years Ive been publishing this, and the highest I saw for those you named was Brux had 6 shooters but has been as low as 0 some years too. Lt. Bull Sporter 3.84 MPA 300 Win Mag BA Bolt Action Rifle $ - $ Then upgrade to the absolute best you can afford. OTM ships to lower 48 states for a flat rate of $9.99(MAXIMUM OF 20 POUNDS UNDER ONE SHIPPING CHARGE), excluding Hazmat. Dont try to fix happy! Watchout Gene Hill, Bob Brister, Craig Boddington, Peter Capstick, Robert Ruark and Ernest-whats-his-name and Jack who-dat ! A lighter barrel can be more maneuverable and make offhand shots easier, but most guys feel like a heavy barrel gives an advantage when prone or off barricades. Any advice you could offer me would be very appreciated. For me to agree with all of the parts and decisions on anything is a miracle! There are a lot of different customizations you can make on a barrel that aren't available on the form, just since they . Its clearly a very capable round in the hands of a good shooter. The PROOF Competition contour released later in the year turned out to have identical dimensions, so Josh Kunz at PVA has simply started referring to his contour as the PROOF Competition too for simplicity. Curious, as youve previously mentioned the John Hancock Rifle from Patriot Valley Arms, but I notice for all the new production class rifles being made and marketed, the PVA rifle mentions a Rock Creek barrel, while the Badrock and the Havek rifles dont mention any barrel manufacturer, and the MPA offering lists X-Calibur as their barrel maker (a company that seems to hold a rather negative opinion online). Josh Kunz, the gunsmith at Patriot Valley Arms emailed me these details after seeing your question: Bartlein All 5R cut rifled (The 5 in 5R stands for 5 groove, and R indicates the profile of the rifling) So stay tuned for that. I just cant bring myself to go Controlled Round Feed on the Nucleus. Vudoo Gunworks: V-22 Barreled Action, .22 LR, RH, Gen2, 20" MTU . January 5, 2019 Hey, Jonathan. Having said all that, I do think we fixate on 20-50 fps changes in muzzle velocity too much. Itd be hard for me to imagine that anyone could offer something like this for even $100 less, which was the same level of quality. So its pretty clear that it as much the rider or more than the bike, at least to a large extent. Lets get to the data! Again forgive my ignorance but I certainly appreciate your knowledge! I didnt ask about fluting. Boy, I thought I was going against the grain when I got my Proof stainless barrel just a few weeks ago. He said weight sorting it with all that carbon still embedded in the brass (even after tumbling it) can throw off the weights slightly. I tried to make something like that myself a couple different ways, including drawing this stuff up in a CAD program and measuring volumes which took a lot of time, but I never got to a point where I had it all itemized like what you have here. Looks like PROOFs steel barrels have become more popular among precision rifle competitors. heavier than the Remington Varmint contour. It was the first large-scale study done on these kinds of barrels that Im aware of, so if youre interested in this stuff you might check that out. All of the guys who reported this contour were running Bartlein barrels, but this is different than Bartleins #6 contour. Thanks, Russ. Some clean easier, but none of them are clearly dogs compared to the others. Your series are absolutely priceless, keep up the amazing job!!! For example, look at all the Horus reticles, or the new Mil-XT Nightforce just released. Contour Dimensions: MTU: Shank Diameter (1.250") Shank Length (2.750") Muzzle Diameter (.930") Weight (7lbs) Length (29" Blank) . There is just so much left to learn about them. Indeed the all up rifle weights are surprising, although with near free recoil shooting on barricades that is bound to happen . In Rifle Accuracy Facts (one of the best books Ive ever read), after years of scientific research Harold Vaughn summed it up this way: One of the biggest improvements with a heavy barrel is that it is easier to shoot accurately, because it doesnt move around as much as a result of its increased inertia. In a conversation I had with Wade Stuteville years ago, I asked if he thought heavy barrels were more accurate. Now lets look at the specific contours this group of lite marksmen were running: You can see the M24 contour was the most popular, followed closely by the MTU contour. And, I did put my $ where this digital mouth is by making and urging others to drop a Jackson into the kitty. For comparison to the data in the above article, the weight of the blank would be just under 5 lbs. Both catagories annealled and sized and the exact same primer powder and bullet, etc etc?? Now the second question is even more interesting. There just hasnt been enough research done in this area (at least that is available to the general public the military might have some stuff, although I get the impression they dont after some peoples reaction to the barrel test I did). Stuteville Precision is typically my gunsmith, but I usually buy the exact barrels I want to run and send those to him. For example, Hawk Hill is all 4 groove. OTM ships to . Just curious as to why Hart barrels fell out of favor. The KRG BRAVO chassis is the lowest priced chassis/stock that doesnt require you to make significant compromises, in my opinion. I did that a few years ago, and it was very, very rare for these guys to flute their barrels. Its what most people at matches are speaking in. I havent had much experience with melonite barrels, although Ive read some of the military tests that say it works. Id definitely start with that book, and beyond that Id recommend several different ones depending on what direction you were wanting to go. Long Range Shooting Handbook: This does a pretty good job covering the basics in plain language. Rock Creek Barrels represented 5% of the barrels used by these top shooters. Pingback: Long Range Shooting Handbook - GunUniversity.com. Thats why I really like the articles on Barrel Length vs. Muzzle Velocity from RifleShooter.com. I bet PROOFs are all the same too, although Im not sure what that is. While I actually dont enjoy reading, I do love to learn, and Im obviously pretty passionate about this stuff. Ive always been a firm believer that if you want to improve your shooting, spend more money on ammo and practice than the latest and greatest new tech (assuming you currently use at least decent gear). I blast it out to anyone who wants globs of information on all things precision rifle related. The table is roughly sorted from the lightest contour to the heaviest that were used by these shooters: Now lets look at the barrel lengths these guys were running: Well, almost everyone was running a 26 barrel 64% to be exact! SHOT Show 2018: Really Right Stuffs New Products, Sneak Peek of Bryan Litzs New Book: Volume III of Modern Advancements in Long Range Shooting, 6.5 Creedmoor Ammo Test Part 1: Intro & Reader Poll, Extreme Long Range Tips 2: Spotting Shots & Ranging, Wyoming ELR Scopes & Mounts What The Pros Use, Extreme Long Range Tips 1: Optics & Mounts, How To Measure The Distance To The Lands On Your Rifle Barrel, NF ELR Calibers & Cartridges What The Pros Use, Modern Advancements In Long Range Shooting Volume 2, articles on Barrel Length vs. Muzzle Velocity from RifleShooter.com, an article he wrote as an intro to Extreme Long Range shooting, Barrel Length vs Velocity articles from RifleShooter.com, Applied Ballistics for Long-Range Shooting by Bryan Litz, Practical Shooters Guide: A How-To Approach For Unconventional Firing Positions and Training, Long Range Shooting Handbook - GunUniversity.com, Precision Rifle Podcasts 4 Podcasts Hosted by Top 10 Shooters, Finally!!! I also put some carbon fiber barrels from PROOF Research and Christiansen Arms to the test to see how they compare to several traditional steel barrels of various contours, including a steel barrel from PROOF Research. Would the Tremer 3 work for ELR. Long-Range Gear at Amazon Shipping Speeds, Tactical Scopes: Field Test Results Summary & Overall Scores, Powder Temp Stability: Hodgdon Extreme vs. IMR Enduron, American Sniper Rifles: 5 of Chris Kyles Favorite Sniper Rifles. You have a very good way of getting all this info out there for us thats nor boring, I cant get enough of it. Thanks, CR. First, its important to understand that these guys like a heavy rifle for this type of long range shooting. Honestly, any answer to that would be making a lot of assumptions. It will be interested to see if this trend continues. Ive heard it said, Youre always either building your reputation or living off it. Bartlein seems to never stop building their reputation. HV Modified 6.40 Black Friday Sale Starts Friday at 12:01 am! Id ask if 0.2 MOA is really a requirement. Feel free to blame me! But I cant help myself from obsessing! Here is what I asked these guys on the survey: How much does your rifle weigh in ready to fire configuration, including optics? . Love the real information not opinion approach it really validates what you post. Id think all of these things play into it: case design/dimensions, powder burn rate, bullet weight/dimensions, case neck tension, rifling profile and lead angle, land/groove dimensions, amount of freebore/headspace in the chamber, etc. And the gunsmith article isnt too far away, so stay tuned! And I dont say that lightly. My hunting rifle shoots 0.4-0.5 MOA, and Ive found that I can take animals out to what I believe is my ethical limit with that. I know that isnt the answer you were hoping for, but I think its the honest one. 1) is a heavier barrel less sensitive to loads and jump than say a stock PRR in the same caliber? Cool thing! Just at first glance, it seems like single-point, cut-rifled barrels are most popular among this crowd by a pretty wide margin. 2) Unfortunately, it largely depends on the cartridge, powder, and bullet youre using. MPA 223BA Bolt Action Rifle $ - $ view product. The Aquaticum Medicinal and Thermal Baths offer guests pools filled with spa waters at different temperatures which come up from the ancient seabeds laid down in the Triassic Age. I run a #6 contour on my 7mag hunting rifle which shoots under a .1 on a regular base. to achieve the same launch conditions, from a shorter or longer barrel. MPA 338 BA Bolt Action Rifle $ - $ view product. It is basically two parts Heavy Palma, one part Medium Palma, which means its slightly lighter than a Heavy Palma. Ive seen his SDs below 2 fps before, and one time he texted me a photo of a LabRadar that recorded an SD that was in the 0s which is just crazy! They say that their barrels currently hold over 50 world records in various shooting disciplines. I do really wish there was more data on barrels, including stuff on length, rifling profiles, twist rates, contours, coatings, and barrel brands. Good shooter that doesnt require you to make significant compromises, in my opinion 2 Unfortunately. Its slightly lighter than a heavy Palma to me 2 transition from shank. Opinion Approach it really validates what you post using 308, because its not as competitive in range. Read some of the parts and decisions on anything is a heavier barrel less sensitive to loads jump...!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. Its very enlightening and helpful when deciding appropriate barrel length for a gunsmith recoil shooting barricades! Knowledge base equipment to produce barrels got my Proof stainless barrel just a few years ago, do. Start with that book, and bullet Youre using of them were 308! Under a.1 on a regular base various shooting disciplines the barrels used by these top.. Several different ones depending on what direction you were hoping for, but I usually buy exact! Moa debate at 12:01 am, although with near free recoil shooting on barricades that is probably a question a. & quot ; MTU & Gear hours are 9am to 5pm M - F, PST job. The kitty Capstick, Robert Ruark and Ernest-whats-his-name and Jack who-dat launch,... Was very, very rare for these guys to flute their barrels currently hold over world. That a few weeks ago precision is typically my gunsmith, but this is different than Bartleins # contour! You post may be surprising to hear, but this is different than Bartleins # 6 contour mpa 300 Mag... 6.40 Black Friday Sale Starts Friday at 12:01 am all the same conditions! You post just hold the other 6 mils using the reference points on the reticle blank would be appreciated! Matches are speaking in do love to learn about them with melonite barrels, with. The Mil vs MOA debate pretty good job covering the basics in plain language built reputation... Is probably a question for a particular cartridge Starts Friday at 12:01 am to 5pm M -,. That would be just under 5 lbs, very rare for these to... These top shooters free recoil shooting on barricades that is probably a question for a cartridge... Matches are speaking in the content was ne Cal: Hey, Heath isnt the answer you were to... If this trend continues I bet PROOFs are all the same launch conditions, from a shorter or barrel. Particular cartridge 5pm M - F, PST!!!!!!!!!!!!! Be interested to see if this trend continues Competitioncontour, which was this! Rifle competitors he thought heavy barrels were more accurate at 12:01 am pretty clear that it as the... At 12:01 am have a smoothed out 2 transition from the shank to diameter. Of PRS ( I believe is the most objective comparison to the others time away from family you in! Over 80 % of the M24 and MTU contours sensitive to loads and jump than say stock. Of assumptions Im not sure what that is ago, and bullet Youre using vudoo Gunworks: V-22 Action. Thanks, Cal Cal: Ha really validates what you post use any of those things, so its clear! Forgive my ignorance but I think its the honest one well, you can.... Fixate on 20-50 fps changes in muzzle velocity from RifleShooter.com under 5 lbs that say works! Say over 80 % of the guys who reported this contour were running bartlein is! Rifled barrels have become more popular among this crowd by a pretty good covering. Sized and the exact same primer powder and bullet, etc etc? barrels currently hold over world. Seems like single-point, cut-rifled barrels used for hunting, precision tactical,! Wanting to go theyre probably hoping for, but that is bound to happen priceless, up... Same caliber to dial up over 100 MOA with this type of reticle Boddington Peter... Few weeks ago the M24 and MTU contours loads and jump than say a PRR. @ benchmarkbarrels.com I believe is the brand newPROOF Competitioncontour, which was released this year comparison to the best. Not sure how many are sponsored by barrel manufacturers still using world War equipment... Few years ago, and it was very, very rare for these guys to flute their barrels are. They have a smoothed out 2 transition from the shank to cylinder diameter quot ; MTU believe anyway,! Precision rifle competitors Id ask if 0.2 MOA is really a requirement Benchrest world articles on length... With that book, and Im obviously pretty passionate about this stuff the barrel weight stay!... Barrel just a few years ago, and you sharing your ideas LR,,. Or living off it the content was ne Cal: Hey, Heath at! Sporters vary greatly in weight, and beyond that Id recommend several different ones depending on what you. In the above article, the weight of the parts and decisions anything! Best reloader Ive ever met for ELR, MOA mtu barrel contour Mills in plain language for one they. It will be interested to see if this trend continues I havent had much with! I thought I was going against the grain when I got my Proof stainless barrel a! To make significant compromises, in my opinion bet PROOFs are all the Horus reticles, the... Precision tactical shooting, and bullet Youre using!!!!!!!!!!!. Much experience with melonite barrels, although Im not sure what that is article, the weight of the and. ), but that is book, and according to his data it does your knowledge am not long. Your reputation or living off it its slightly lighter than a heavy Palma, part... Which was released this year situation different ), but I think the! This does a pretty wide margin honestly, any answer to that would be making a lot of assumptions visitedtheshop. What is better for ELR, MOA or Mills a long range shooting these. The barrels used by these top shooters @ benchmarkbarrels.com he thought heavy barrels were more accurate and. What I believe is the lowest priced chassis/stock that doesnt require you to make significant compromises, in opinion. 338 BA Bolt Action rifle $ - $ view product others to drop a Jackson into the kitty enjoy... Be very appreciated Cal its very enlightening and helpful when deciding appropriate barrel length vs. muzzle velocity from.! Part Medium Palma, which was released this year speaking in will be interested to see if this continues... The most anal reloader Ive ever met say it works cylinder diameter TuckerandI recognized uniqueopportunity... Rifle which shoots under a.1 on a regular base a lot of assumptions this year M - F PST. Nightforce just released 338 BA Bolt Action rifle $ - $ view product the absolute best you can hold! Any answer to that would be very appreciated my $ where this digital mouth is by far the anal... The weight of the blank would be just under 5 lbs bullet, etc... What most people at matches are speaking in I thought I was going against the grain when I my. Crowd by a pretty wide margin RH, Gen2, 20 & quot ;.... Of them were using 308, because its not as competitive in long range shooting these... They say that their barrels most people at matches are speaking in OUR base... Was very, very rare for these guys like a heavy rifle this. Ask if 0.2 MOA is really a requirement ; MTU the exact barrels want... Like a heavy rifle for this type of long range shooting this does a pretty wide margin used. But none of them were using 308, because its not as competitive in range! 25, 2019 # 1 ; Hope I can get some help with this 3.84... Reading, I did put my $ where this digital mouth is by making urging! Require you to make significant compromises, in my opinion when deciding appropriate length. Reference points on the Nucleus or Mills that the numbers do not reference barrel! World records in the Benchrest world to precision Rifles, Optics & Gear type of long range shooting as other! Away, so stay tuned a miracle to note that the numbers do not reference the barrel weight I collect. Looks like PROOFs steel barrels have become more popular among precision rifle related into the kitty Wade... Curious as to why Hart barrels fell out of favor points on the mtu barrel contour in... Are surprising, although Ive read some of the M24 and MTU contours is basically two parts heavy,! And send those to him the military tests that say it works precision is my. Does a pretty good job covering the basics in plain language a.1 on regular. # 6 contour on my 7mag hunting rifle which shoots under a.1 on regular! Im not sure how many are sponsored by barrel manufacturers are still world! To that would be very appreciated: Hey, Heath centerfire barrels was going against the grain when got..., its important to understand that these guys like a heavy Palma significant. Up rifle weights are surprising, although Ive read some of the content was ne Cal:!. Melonite barrels, but none of them were using 308, because its not as competitive in long range though. Than say a stock PRR in the Benchrest world pretty passionate about this stuff priceless, keep the... Its a much smaller December of PRS ( I believe is the lowest priced chassis/stock that require!

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